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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:22 pm 
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Alright, I am finally getting this stuff up for everyone. There are still a few things to add. Dive planes is one.
Remember these are the Proposed Aero rules for 2020.



-----1.1 Splitters are subject to the following restrictions:

a) Splitter may be no wider than the outer width of the front tires, with the wheels pointed straight ahead and the car on the ground.

b) The front splitter must not extend more than 6.0 inches past the original bodywork (longitudinal direction) as viewed from above for the entire profile of the splitter.

c) Vertical elements attached to the splitter for the purpose of aerodynamics are prohibited.

d) Splitter mounting system shall not pose a hazard in the case of side or rear car contact

e) Leading edge of splitter must be free of sharp edges and corners.

-----1.2 Wing, including endplates are subject to the following restrictions:

a) No wing may exceed 72.0 inches in length. The entire wing assembly may be no wider than the widest part of the car, not including mirrors.

b) Wing height is limited to 8.0 inches above the original roofline or tallest roll hoop on the car, whichever is highest.

c) Wing assembly (including endplates) may not protrude more than 16.0 inches past the rear bumper.

d) Mounting system for wing may not protrude past rear bumper below the top of the bumper (where it protrudes from the bodywork). "Chassis" style mounts may be used only if covered completely by rear bumper. (In the case of a car with no bumper we need to add a minimum height requirement for protruding past the rear)

e) Wing endplates are limited to a maximum of 200 square inches. (change to height x width restriction?)

Some asked for this to be emailed, so i will try and get it out ASAP.
Any questions just ask.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:23 pm 
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So, dive planes that attach to splitter are out?

Floor?
Diffuser?

This is a blanket for all cars at AMP, inluding GT1?

This kinda kills the guys that want to do double duty with TA and race.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:12 pm 
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Paul Machan wrote:
So, dive planes that attach to splitter are out?

Floor?
Diffuser?

This is a blanket for all cars at AMP, inluding GT1?

This kinda kills the guys that want to do double duty with TA and race.


Yes this would be for all classes. And yes it may hurt some of the guys running double duty. They May have to build a second setup for T/A. But from what we found looking at multiple rule-sets, this is very open. We wanted to allow as much as possible but keep the chance of cutting other peoples tires down to a MIN, or having issues with cars getting Pushed and having spoiler mounts failing or splitter mounts failing.

We would have to look at the Dive planes attaching to splitters. We were more so wanting to keep End-plates away from splitters. As they have the best chance of cutting tires down.
And yeah Diffuser's are part of the "more to add part".

And again these are just Proposed rules for 2020. But if we leave it open, I feel we will have trouble.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:42 am 
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My opinion is that we should leave one unlimited type class, GT1, open, if we go with these rules. I don't really think we need these aero rules at all to be honest, I like seeing the innovative guys do their thing.
I think the rules based on safety grounds is a little silly, as winged formula cars get along pretty well, as well as prototypes, Radicals, etc.
Worried about cutting a tire on someones splitter, stay away from it, change how you race that car.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:38 pm 
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Paul, I disagree.

Need to avoid big aero time attack setups that are not intended for racing....The rules need to allow for any modern road race car in any racing series, like GT3 and GT4 (Pro stuff, like IMSA)....then we are not alientating anyone.

And I think these rules fit that - if you actually measure some of the stuff joel has put there - it's pretty wild - a rear wing 8" above roof and 16" past the rear bumper is a lot - no pro car is allowed to be that wild.

and if our vette had a splitter 6" past the stock nose - it would be about 2ft long! Would look like that crazy Japanese stuff!

Diffusers have to be allowed, no question about that, and so do dive planes - the diffuser rearward dimension needs to be capped, as well as the width, similar to the splitter rules. Dive planes - need to be within the front tire outer edges, same as splitter. All reasonable stuff.

What joel is proposing still leaves the ability to generate massive amounts of aero if you want to, enough to drive upside down if you wanted to do it. So its not limiting design or creativity, it just giving the problem some boundaries.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:26 pm 
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Paul Machan wrote:

This kinda kills the guys that want to do double duty with TA and race.

...and double duty with autoslalom rules as per my email last year that the proposed splitter width of being no wider than the tires goes against the ASN Canada autoslalom rules. For instance:


Modified category rules state:
Splitters may not be wider than, nor extend more than, 6.0” (15.2 cm) forward of the top- view outline of the car.

Prepared category:
No portion of the spoiler/splitter may extend beyond the widest part of the front bodywork forward of the front wheel openings as viewed from above

Street Modified class:
No portion of the split- ter may extend beyond the widest part of the front bodywork as viewed from above


But I don’t disagree that we have to do something to keep large time attack style appendages from getting too far out of hand ...however only while not impacting our small number of sedan competitors by making rules that limit cross discipline participation.

Thanks
Stacy

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:45 pm 
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Not really sure where the issue is Stacy. Your Aero is well within the rules that we proposed. So you don’t have to change anything. Or am missing something?

And leigh, yeah we need to get the Dive plane rules and diffuser stuff together. But you pretty much nailed it. Dive planes no wide then the splitter and diffusers no wider then rear track and When viewed from above, can not be past the rear bumper.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:57 pm 
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i think you have to let it go past the rear bumper a bit...else I could not race my new FORD GT GTe/GTLM at AMP next year....lol. That POS is illegal anyway!


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:01 am 
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While I'm just trying to make sure that autoslalom cars in our Region (with maybe the exception of DM and EM) can be allowed to compete as race cars with their current aero setup ...in my case while quite close, it looks like I may need a little more negative camber to meet your proposal :roll: ...however in other cars with stock fenders this may be a larger difference?
Attachment:
IMG_5742.jpg
IMG_5742.jpg [ 136.41 KiB | Viewed 523 times ]

Meanwhile in autoslalom rules (again with the exception of DM and EM classes) rear wings meet your proposal as they are not allowed to be any wider than the width of the doors and cannot extend back beyond rear bumpers ...and (while I am only familiar with my XP class on this issue) I don't think diffusers are allowed either so there is no issue there either.

So all I am proposing is that you change it from "width of the tire" to "width of the bodywork" like the solo rules which could also limit the reverse problem where somebody has a tire cambered out and/or significantly offset out from the fenders enough to allow a splitter edge to stick out more than the confines of the bodywork causing the Ben Hur tire shredding edge that you are trying to get away from?

Thanks
Stacy

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:30 am 
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Not that I'm planning any aero mods anytime soon, but the wording of this one is not that clear:
"c) Vertical elements attached to the splitter for the purpose of aerodynamics are prohibited."
So can there be vertical elements that are for other purposes? For example if put end plates on the ends of the splitter and attach them to the fender and I claim they are structural is that allowed? If vertical elements/endplates are not allowed on the splitter then just say that.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:05 pm 
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(disclaimer: I wrote/compiled the rules DRAFT after going over rulebooks for a few different amateur series after the AGM)

As explained to me, the intent was to keep people from building things like this, and a few lines to rule out sharp pointy bits near tires. Keep it simple, and to the point unlike some other series. Can't cover every base so there would be some discretion left to tech/race director on areas where people are trying to do tortured interpretations of the rules.

Image

Image

Per stacy's point, I do see it. I was trying to make it simple for someone to understand since "bodywork" can be vague and a lot of series strictly use stock bodywork. I would probably modify it to say no wider than the front bodywork as viewed from above. I figured tires was easier to see as a visual check.

Canards/Dive planes I think would be the same width limit.

Per the rear wings - I've been thinking maybe just go with the width of the car + a few inches either side and an absolute max of 72" like global time attack. Limit the rear setback more (say 4-8" instead of 16"). The safety hazard of a wing seems very low to me - for a wing to actually make contact with another car it would require some serious crumpling of bodywork as no car has straight sides and the drivers are far inside the shell.

Diffusers as others have suggested should just be limited by bodywork, same for floors.

As Leigh already mentioned, these rules are allowing a pretty significant amount of downforce. Typical rulesets like SCCA ST* class is much more restrictive.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:00 pm 
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Scott Montgomerie wrote:

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Purdy!


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 2:04 pm 
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As long as these new rules line up with other series, and still allow folks to be creative, all good.

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