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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:25 am 
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not sure if it is appropriate to start this, but what the heck, let's get the discussion going!

1. Pit opening under safety car. Many issues this year, lots of discussion and confusion. 1st SC at JCM the waveby cars were shown Pit Open sign at S/F before the leader (not right), no sign in T9, then front straight sign was removed.....very confusing....so why don't we make it simple for the officials and the teams - never close the pits.

2. gridding was great this season with the new system - funny to watch the old system cluster at the JCM. Time between races seemed really tight when vintage was not running....not sure what the solution is.....lapping sessions in between races? Combine time attack with racing? or do some kind of time attack shoot out/king of the hill?

3. What did everyone think of the heat/main format? I liked it for the most part. One strange thing, if you register for "A" races and your close competitor registers for "B" races, pre event, you don't get to race each other, and have no idea until quali....which brings us to the next point...

4. can we see the registration list somewhere, as it gets updated, before the event?....a lot of tracks/clubs/series are using motorsportreg.com, and this allows for simple registration, and then you can see what everyone else is running, and who is running....may help to build the car count if other can see who is coming? (i'm sure there is a fee for this service....) maybe whoever made the registration site we use can make a simple web page to display a live registration list?

5. need to discuss how we handle shortened races with pit stops. May race - cars that already pitted got screwed - which was not right - i'd suggest a 5min time penalty to all cars that have not pitted at the time of early race ending...

That's all for now, Leigh


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:47 am 
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It's possible to make a google form spreadsheet viewable to anyone with a link to it. But it also means anyone can see whatever information is stored in it. The creator/editor can hide columns but they also need those columns to grab entries from.

I don't know why we don't just use MSreg. Just about everywhere else has made the switch.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:00 am 
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I've heard people saying that they don't want to pay for ARMS to use MSReg. But the guy who wrote it (Brian Ghiarelli (sp?)) was a Spec Miata racer that used to frequent the big on-line forum that I once followed. I'm pretty sure I remember him saying in one of his posts that it was free, if you didn't want to use the on-line payments portion. So, so long as we could get along without doing cash transfers through them I think we could switch over pretty easily, with no cost to anyone.

MS Reg is cool, it lists your events for everyone to see world-wide and facilitates messages to all of the regular participants. I like it.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:31 am 
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You are correct, it only costs money if you want to route payment through them and for a few other features. I've toyed with using it for ASCC slaloms but our newbie entries are still huge so I haven't done anything yet. For race it seems like a no-brainer. I'd even volunteer my time to help with it.

https://www.motorsportreg.com/index.cfm ... lic.signup

The only thing I'm not sure of is how it handles multiple drivers in one car in the 1hr, but maybe others who've used it could comment.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:41 am 
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People have been talking about using MotorsportReg for years but nobody seems to want to commit. There's a reason its used by hundreds of clubs all over the place though. It just makes life easier. Pre-registration for race is abyssmal and frankly there's not much excuse for it. It just makes life harder for everyone.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:33 pm 
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At CTMP there was a $35 late fee if u registered after Wednesday.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:07 pm 
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#1- would it be safe to leave the pits open all the time? Just thinking everyone would head in to pit as soon as they see a SC car board. Id debate whether we should just close the pit until we go green again. For the most part we didnt have any issue really over the year. The JCM saw a few issues, but training on saftey car is hard.

#2 Gridding was good. Still some learning for cars farther back having issues with what side they should be on. Not really a safe spot to stand to point left or right as cars pull off grid. Same with how many cars go between each set of cones. My thought was each cone holds 2 cars. Each row. That way you know who is to your left or right for on track. If someone doesnt make grid, it makes a hole but its not a common issue, so it wont present itself often. Time attack on Sunday isnt a great idea as theres some mix of racers who time attack. But Lapping is a great idea. Just need someone to organize it. But Scott and I talked about this before, and both feel this will help keep race alive.

#3 I really like the Heat/Main race format. I also like the abilty to run 1 series of the day. There was a constant flow of cars every weekend who came out due to this. It also meant we had cars showing all 5 raceday instead of 2-3 racedays. I know we have to work on pricing due to the size of money lost this year. But I feel its a segup we should keep. I had kicked the idea around of single race class splitting. But left it to see how things played out this year. But i think we should look at it. If your running just 1 series then GT1-3 and P/S would run the Debert race series and GT4-6 would run the penfield series. It would help keep each class at its fullest and the people running a full day can sort out just like normal who does what race. we can also swap what race each class would be in as well.

#4 dont really care either way. As long as it doesnt cost ARMS anything and is easy to use i am good with MSREG.

#5 I agree with your idea. Any race with a manditory pit stop that is ended prior to the 10 min mark, will give a 5 min time to any car that did not stop for its timed pit stop. I need to double check on the 10 min part. I thought it was part of the rules but just not followed.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:40 pm 
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Quote:
#1- would it be safe to leave the pits open all the time? Just thinking everyone would head in to pit as soon as they see a SC car board. Id debate whether we should just close the pit until we go green again. For the most part we didnt have any issue really over the year. The JCM saw a few issues, but training on saftey car is hard.


july 1hr race on 2nd sc they picked me up as the leader - but I pitted on 1st SC, so was about 5 laps down....I get confused at times, and I've done this sh!t for a living!!! They also got the Pit Open / wave by stuff jumbled up on the same SC.

So if it never closes, yes, all may pit, and SC would be alone....kind of strange, but the race would go on....and, if you can only go 1hr on fuel (in 3hr race), and someone can go 1h20min, short tank car pits at 1hr, SC at 1h10min, then the car with the longer range can take advantage, small range car is screwed.....it's the same now, but the lose is a lot less now, as you can only pit at the end.

Leaving the pits closed - only issue is if someone is running out of fuel - won't happen often - need an emergency service clause - like you can take a splash and join the back of the pack without penalty in a closed pit....problem is the driver has to get out, and you may lose a lap....can we get rid of the driver getting out of the car? Really is a pain in the butt. Seems silly, we don't require the guy holding the fire bottle to have gear on (the fireman!), but the guy with everything on can't stay in the car? Maybe it's required by insurance? I'd like to challenge that rule.

So pits stay closed during SC, drivers can stay in cars during refueling (or maybe just allowed to stay in for a pits closed emergency splash?).

Quote:
#2 Gridding was good. Still some learning for cars farther back having issues with what side they should be on. Not really a safe spot to stand to point left or right as cars pull off grid. Same with how many cars go between each set of cones. My thought was each cone holds 2 cars. Each row. That way you know who is to your left or right for on track. If someone doesnt make grid, it makes a hole but its not a common issue, so it wont present itself often. Time attack on Sunday isnt a great idea as theres some mix of racers who time attack. But Lapping is a great idea. Just need someone to organize it. But Scott and I talked about this before, and both feel this will help keep race alive.


At CTMP, there was an official at pit out, right as the pit lane speed limit ended, telling each car LEFT of Right with a finger point. That marshal does not need to know anything about the grid, just alternate LEFT and RIGHT point for each car....I still messed up the Race 2 start when we went 2 by 2 on the back straight, took me about 3sec to realize I was on the wrong side!


Last edited by Leigh Pettipas on Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:42 pm 
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Need to also find a way to keep the numbers up. May and the JCM had the best car counts.

#1 Would people be interested in a 4 race series instead of 5?

#2 Add a 3 Hour race in place of 1 regular raceday? July or Aug.

#3 Could we also find sponsors for the regular series? $500 a weekend will make a difference, but we need someone to spearhead this. Not a racer as well. Haha

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:58 pm 
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Gatta agree leigh. Never really understood why the driver had to get out. I Fully agree with the fueler needs proper gear on and a fire bottle at the ready, whether ASN is control on this we will have to find out.
Do you happen to know the rule in ontario when you were up?

I see your point on the pit stop stuff for the 3Hour, but for the 1 hour race i can still see a large group pitting under any saftey car after the 15 min mark. At our current car count its not a big deal, but above 20 cars it might start to crowd and cause issues.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:29 pm 
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Hey Joel, take these with a grain of salt, but I'm going to have my say.

(I wouldn't want to break a perfect record of having every suggestion I've ever made being ignored, and don't expect it to happen now. Lol.)

1. I think a lot of us (marshals and racers alike) are just now figuring out this safety car/pit open/closed business. I'd say we just try to work on getting it to work correctly as it is supposed to, and maybe put off making any more wholesale changes for a while.

2. Putting two people in each 'bay' beside the cones on the grid completely defeated the whole purpose of the diagonal gridding thing - if someone is missing with two cars in a bay upstream, everyone downstream still thinks they are supposed to line up for the start beside their same grid partner, instead of adjusting to a new alignment. If it were me, I'd say just buy some more cones and try to do the job properly (one car/cone).

3. I very much dislike the heat/main race setup, and the accompanying non-straightforward fee schedule. Just like I did last year. It's not a deal-breaker, but when I come to the race track, I want to race for something, not just turn laps. And that's what those 'heat' races were in terms of series points, just a free track day session, albeit one with open passing. I'd rather sign up for an AFRA day instead to turn empty laps, to me it's just a waste of time (and money) on a race day. If we were actually eliminating people from competition in the heats it would be a different story, but we haven't had a problem with too many cars signing up for as long as I can remember.

And the fact that you couldn't share the lower priced options in the fee schedule also bugged me. I understand the financial pressures some folks are under, but trying to build weird fee structures that benefit some at the expense of others isn't a sustainable business model, IMHO. A straightforward graduated fee schedule (where you pay more for your first race, but then progressively less for each succeeding one) would be better, provided you could freely pick and choose which races you wanted to do. Race as much as you can afford, or want.

4. See my post above.

5. It's already in the rules. Just needs to be applied consistently, lol!

Apologies in advance, I'll crawl back in my cave now. :roll:


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:13 pm 
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I did not run in the 90min enduro at CTMP, and did not pay attention to the pit stop requirements.....

I think we need to talk more about keeping the pits closed during SC.....I love the strategy side of it now, but when we struggle with the procedure, it just gets really frustrating. Think KISS (keep is simple).

and no penalty for pitting in a closed pit, just won't count to your 5 min (unless you were in before SC).


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:35 pm 
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I like the heat/main setup. Racing for reduced points but improved grid position in the first race, then the "main" points gave an advantage to reliable car/driver combinations that could perform well in the second race. Perhaps more points could be allocated to the heat races so that they are more than just racing for grid position, but recognizing that doing well in the second race of the day is more challenging than in the first made sense to me.

Having all classes in each of the Debert and Pennfield series meant that split driver cars could each get a full day of racing - qual/heat/race/split 1hr. If the classes were split so that only 1 series was available to half the classes, and the other for the remainder, then my team will have one less driver, and one less entry fee. I would like to race against more cars in my class, but I wouldn't want to see less race time per car be available as a result.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:05 pm 
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Brent O'Connor wrote:
I like the heat/main setup. Racing for reduced points but improved grid position in the first race, then the "main" points gave an advantage to reliable car/driver combinations that could perform well in the second race. Perhaps more points could be allocated to the heat races so that they are more than just racing for grid position, but recognizing that doing well in the second race of the day is more challenging than in the first made sense to me.

Having all classes in each of the Debert and Pennfield series meant that split driver cars could each get a full day of racing - qual/heat/race/split 1hr. If the classes were split so that only 1 series was available to half the classes, and the other for the remainder, then my team will have one less driver, and one less entry fee. I would like to race against more cars in my class, but I wouldn't want to see less race time per car be available as a result.


I just Ment for the people running 1 series. The people paying to run a full day can still run both.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:07 pm 
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Leigh Pettipas wrote:
At CTMP, there was an official at pit out, right as the pit lane speed limit ended, telling each car LEFT of Right with a finger point. That marshal does not need to know anything about the grid, just alternate LEFT and RIGHT point for each car....I still messed up the Race 2 start when we went 2 by 2 on the back straight, took me about 3sec to realize I was on the wrong side!


I know we brought it up last year when Steve suggested system. The whole point was that the pit exit marshal (or grid marshal) could do exactly that so newbies knew exactly where to go instead of trying to make assumptions. The new system somewhat solved the problem when cars didn't get to grid, but there were definitely instances of cars gridding wrong on track. The grid marshal doesn't need to stand in between cars or in traffic. Just use the old system of pointing at a car and then also point left or right while walking by. The grid setup could use a little improvement. Measure out where the cones need to be, chalk the cone bases to keep them consistent and also put huge chalk #s in each grid spot. That way the grid marshal can tell you "grid spot #5" and you can just go there without question. If slalomers can figure it out I'm pretty sure racers can. It gets a little confusing when you get told to go behind a certain car, but that other car doesn't know where they are supposed to be in grid.

We also need to emphasize proper stack up with the heat race format. Because of car issues I often started at the back of the main race and was often way behind the main group because the car(s) in front left a huge gap. I understand some drivers are new/timid and don't want to start 3ft off someone's bumper but there is no reason to be 100ft back.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:17 pm 
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Andy, if we did full points would you still feel the same way about the heat races?

And while I would like to say split the races like you guys did in Ontario we don’t have the numbers to do it. It would mean teams could run 1 series and share the race. Losing even more money then what we lost this year. I am sure you can understand that. If we ever get to the point that we have a 30+ car average then maybe we can look into it.

From talking to drivers this year they seem happy to have equal track time. Nobody has to decide who runs the 3rd race. Having the option to run 1 series also ment a few drivers came out over the year that would have stayed home. It was a step in the right direction just a bad year alround car wise.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:21 am 
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Joel N wrote:
Andy, if we did full points would you still feel the same way about the heat races?


Yes, I would prefer it if all of the races counted equally towards the series championship. If they all counted equally, you wouldn't even have to do two races in each series every round; you could make some rounds 'Double Debert' rounds, and others 'Double Pennfield'. So long as Round 5 was a double for both the numbers would balance (and you'd have an increased importance event to end the year on).

Not directly related I guess, but I think we should work on ways to get people excited about running for these club championships. Right now, a lot of us just sort of think of ARMS stuff as 'I can take it or leave it' individual events. It's the folks who want to run the whole schedule that are your bedrock customers, they're the ones you want to keep the most.

Another wild, left field thought that sort of appeals to me: Do the two series sprint races in the morning, and a 2 hour enduro in the afternoon. Separate practice/qualifying sessions for both - the enduro qualifying in the afternoon, so that someone who just wants to run that doesn't have to turn up at the track at 8:30 in the morning.

:D

Edit: 'cater to the most' in the above post would have been more accurate that what I wrote ( 'keep the most'). Freudian slip, I guess.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:46 am 
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Andy I like your idea of promoting the championships at the end of the year - but I would not like to see another SM debacle....crashing each other to win a water bottle (I'm exaggerating, lol, but not that far off). For the Pro Stock stuff, been toying with the idea of rewards/prizes for achievements not related to finishing position.....like everyone who does all races, or 4 out of 5, has chance to win 2 tires, or something like that.

I'm personally good with one long race per year - cost goes up very fast for long races in big cars - fuel, tires and brakes. I enjoy sprint racing at AMP. Need more crew for longer races too, with refueling.

Great discussion guys, keep it up!


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:56 am 
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Just another thought: why do we have two sprint race championships in the first place? To me, it just dilutes the car counts in the individual races, and makes sharing cars with others awkward/impossible. And makes the individual championships less prestigious, if that's a word that can be applied to club racing in the first place.

I can't think of a single drawback to doing things like we used to in the old Spec Miata series: 3 races each event, all counted equally towards a championship, scored by car instead of individual. You pay your entry fee at each event, all cars present run all three races (bigger grids) and you split the driving up any way you want between teammates. You end up with a stronger 15 race championship run over 5 weekends, with more cars/people participating. It would almost have to be more attractive to any potential series sponsor than what we are doing now.

Edit: Just to complete the thought - if I were king (and we decided to do things this way), I'd make the 3-race Sprint entry fee $300, and the separate enduro fee $175 or so. Package deal $430 for the two. That way, people on a super-tight budget could still afford to race, and it makes the enduro even more attractive to them than any option we have now. Which is where I'd be trying to steer newbies to get their feet wet anyway... You all probably think differently.


Last edited by Andy Mitchell on Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:12 am 
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Leigh Pettipas wrote:
I would not like to see another SM debacle....crashing each other to win a water bottle....


Lol, you'd prefer to be crashed into but not get a water bottle? (too easy, too soon? :D )


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:27 am 
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FWIW my not showing up had nothing to do with race format, series, costs, etc. Just didn't have the time. Need to find a way to be in two places at once. I liked some of the changes that were made for 2018, disappointed didn't get to chance to try them out.

I did appreciate someone from the race committee reaching out to see why I wasn't showing up. Good that they were looking for some feedback. If they didn't reach out to other no-shows would suggest that they do so before making changes. BTW thanks to a couple people that offered to help get the car ready. While it didn't work in my situation, it might have been enough to get others out to the track if that sort of support was available/offered.

Pitting during safety cars: Unless there is a need to close them would agree it would be easier to just leave the pits open. Would think fewer cars on the track during a SC would be safer than them being out on track (gives 5 min for rescue/MRT to do their thing with almost everyone in the pits). And most are going to go into the pits as soon as they open anyway, so still end up with a crowded pit lane either way. Don't get what bunching cars up behind the safety car before opening the pits accomplishes.

From the previous discussion seems most agreed that there should be some sort of adjustment for when there is a shortened race to account for those not getting a chance to stop. There were a lot of different ideas as to what the adjustment should be. Since this doesn't seem to happen a lot I would suggest the adjustment is something simple like a set amount of time (5 minutes seems reasonable).

In chumpcar canada the driver can be in the car while fueling and they still can get insurance (don't know from who). There can even be someone helping the driver in and out of the car during fueling (usually the fully suited drivers making the swap). Rushing fueling or a driver getting back in the car after fueling is not going to promote safety. However chumpcar require both fueler and the fire bottle person to be in full fire gear (suit, gloves, shoes, helmet, etc).

It would be nice to see who is registered leading up to a race weekend. Would not only help figure out which series to sign up for but in some cases it may even help decide what class to run in. Have used MSReg a couple times and it was easy to use.

Joel, I had the same reaction as Brent to the 1 series only class suggestion. Had to read it a couple more times to figure out what you were getting at. Think the idea is good. However if we can see who is registered in a series before signing up that may happen anyway (eg if there are 3 PS signed up for Derbert and only 1 for Pennfield then likely other PS only doing 1 series would sign up for the Derbert as well).

Agree that pairing cars up by row on the grid defeats the purpose of the new grid system (ie allows for missing cars). But do we really need someone to point sides? With the new gridding system figured you would just go to the opposite side of the car that left the grid in front of you (so if the pole sitter lines up on one side the other cars should just naturally fall into lanes). If you are lined up behind the car that left the grid in front of you then you are on the wrong side. It might be helpful to pick a spot in the track where cars should line up and mention that in the drivers meeting (eg. cars should start lining up after turn 8 so no "tire scrubbing" after turn 7.)

Lapping between races is fine (as long as the lapping cars don't spill antifreeze on the track), but couldn't we just agree that there should be a minimum time between races even without lapping? Don't want to make the day overly long for the volunteers out there, but need to have a reasonable time for driver changes/fueling etc. between heats.

Looking forward to 2019.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:53 pm 
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FWIW my not showing up had nothing to do with race format, series, costs, etc. Just didn't have the time. Need to find a way to be in two places at once. I liked some of the changes that were made for 2018, disappointed didn't get to chance to try them out.

I did appreciate someone from the race committee reaching out to see why I wasn't showing up. Good that they were looking for some feedback. If they didn't reach out to other no-shows would suggest that they do so before making changes. BTW thanks to a couple people that offered to help get the car ready. While it didn't work in my situation, it might have been enough to get others out to the track if that sort of support was available/offered.

Pitting during safety cars: Unless there is a need to close them would agree it would be easier to just leave the pits open. Would think fewer cars on the track during a SC would be safer than them being out on track (gives 5 min for rescue/MRT to do their thing with almost everyone in the pits). And most are going to go into the pits as soon as they open anyway, so still end up with a crowded pit lane either way. Don't get what bunching cars up behind the safety car before opening the pits accomplishes.


good point, i think we need to discuss both options, leaving open, and never opening under SC....

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From the previous discussion seems most agreed that there should be some sort of adjustment for when there is a shortened race to account for those not getting a chance to stop. There were a lot of different ideas as to what the adjustment should be. Since this doesn't seem to happen a lot I would suggest the adjustment is something simple like a set amount of time (5 minutes seems reasonable).


has to compensate for one (or two) 5min pit stop(s). needs to be time. Laps make no sense, some cars do 1:10, some so 1:30, over 5 min that's a lap.

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In chumpcar canada the driver can be in the car while fueling and they still can get insurance (don't know from who). There can even be someone helping the driver in and out of the car during fueling (usually the fully suited drivers making the swap). Rushing fueling or a driver getting back in the car after fueling is not going to promote safety. However chumpcar require both fueler and the fire bottle person to be in full fire gear (suit, gloves, shoes, helmet, etc).


Id like to see us do the same....no need to get out for driver, fire bottle guy needs to be in full uniform.

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It would be nice to see who is registered leading up to a race weekend. Would not only help figure out which series to sign up for but in some cases it may even help decide what class to run in. Have used MSReg a couple times and it was easy to use.

Joel, I had the same reaction as Brent to the 1 series only class suggestion. Had to read it a couple more times to figure out what you were getting at. Think the idea is good. However if we can see who is registered in a series before signing up that may happen anyway (eg if there are 3 PS signed up for Derbert and only 1 for Pennfield then likely other PS only doing 1 series would sign up for the Derbert as well).

Agree that pairing cars up by row on the grid defeats the purpose of the new grid system (ie allows for missing cars). But do we really need someone to point sides? With the new gridding system figured you would just go to the opposite side of the car that left the grid in front of you (so if the pole sitter lines up on one side the other cars should just naturally fall into lanes). If you are lined up behind the car that left the grid in front of you then you are on the wrong side. It might be helpful to pick a spot in the track where cars should line up and mention that in the drivers meeting (eg. cars should start lining up after turn 8 so no "tire scrubbing" after turn 7.)


we are stupid, to much adrenilin, we need someone to point sides, lol!

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Lapping between races is fine (as long as the lapping cars don't spill antifreeze on the track), but couldn't we just agree that there should be a minimum time between races even without lapping? Don't want to make the day overly long for the volunteers out there, but need to have a reasonable time for driver changes/fueling etc. between heats.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:56 pm 
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Andy Mitchell wrote:
Leigh Pettipas wrote:
I would not like to see another SM debacle....crashing each other to win a water bottle....


Lol, you'd prefer to be crashed into but not get a water bottle? (too easy, too soon? :D )


Fare comment, difference in this situation is that it was not intentional or malicious....we are still friends, and we both treated it like gentlemen - I don't want to lose that (over a water bottle)!

Best racing I've ever had has been against Matt, class act all the way. He was just a little amped up for the JCM this year!!!!


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:21 pm 
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Thoughts on the main issue we are facing - financially feasible regional racing:

A- I don't think the solution is going to be found in fee schedules. Yes, we could figure out how to spread the 3-6-10,000 (I don't know what the number is) that the region has expended on racing above the entry fees among the 15-20 drivers through fees, but that type of "shaving of the ice cube" will not give us a sustainable model. And the effort in time, energy and possible conflict could be put towards more fruitful initiatives in the bigger picture.

B- I think there should be a concerted effort in promotion and series sponsorship, both for spectators, racers, and companies that would be interested in marketing opportunities.

C- It will cost money to promote racing to spectators, but if we could get spectators we would have a legitimate opportunity for promotion to corporate sponsorship. It needs to be worth it for companies.

that's enough for now

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:05 pm 
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I don’t think spectators are the answer - we were just at CTMP, about 10 big board Gt1’s going at it, many classes of racing, no spectators.....same at Tremblant. You need a show to have spectators .... does anyone trackside have any clue who is leading a 1hr after 30 min? We don’t even know 1/2 the time! lol ! You need promotion, you need a dedicated announcer, you need concessions...go to SSW for a night, they have a show. (And CTMP offers free tickets online)

Like elsewhere in Canada, we need car counts. I think things are going in the right direction with Pro Stock, Jay has been a great addition, Alan Avis is planning a full season. Couple other potentials. I like Andy’s idea of making year end points more of a big deal, will encourage more of us to run full season. Sponsors are typivmcally going to be people involved (no different than NA top level racing, like IMSA). Very few none associated sponsors - Weathertech - kid runs in GTD, patron, etc. I was told this year that someone offered sponsorship and no one got back to them - so 1st step is dealing with that issue. Dad sponsored this year, get him at the right time, maybe he’d pony up a bit for end of year points sponsorship....we have lots of business people in our ranks, car dealers, small business owners - a little for each can help, series names, window banners, trophy names in return - doesn’t need to be debert race, I like Vantage VW CUP!!

Personally I’m trying to offer a high level of race car prep to customers - we need to cater to guys/gals that have the means to pay to have this done - and there are not a lot of options out there for them. It’s great to have a lot of track activity to potentially feed racing, but there is a group of people that are interested and will pay to race, that don’t want to be involved, or don’t have time to be involved in the prep side of things. Enabling this crowd to come out will go a long way in increasing car count and getting sponsorship - Alan A was already sponsoring a car before he has started racing himself....


Last edited by Leigh Pettipas on Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:50 pm 
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Hi everyone. Just want to politely say I will not be back next year with heat races. Don't expect anyone to change anything for me just explaining ahead of time if I don't show up in May. I'm only one car but that translates in business terms a 10% loss in revenue in a 10 car field. Good luck and love to all.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:38 pm 
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So Brian, just trying to understand, if all 4 sprint races in the day paid equal points, you would race next season, every event?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:44 pm 
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Brian Bent wrote:
Hi everyone. Just want to politely say I will not be back next year with heat races. Don't expect anyone to change anything for me just explaining ahead of time if I don't show up in May. I'm only one car but that translates in business terms a 10% loss in revenue in a 10 car field. Good luck and love to all.


Brian perhaps if you let us know why you hadn't been there this year it could prove useful. Is there more to it than heat races? Because I truly don't understand how a change in points structure would keep a car owner from competing when in the end it's all for nothing more than the recognition of our peers. There has to be more to it than just heat races/points structure.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 1:46 am 
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It is several things Brent but the meaningless heat races is the nail in the coffin for me. I think you know why I wasn't out this year and last. Nobody else does and I would like to keep it that way. Please acknowledge that I have said in my previous post that I do not expect things to be changed for me. I had asked this year in April to let me know what the final decision on that would be but never got a response. Thought I would give lots of notice for next year. I had a long post all prepared just before this one explaining all my views but when I hit submit it must have went skyward. I lost the post . I guess even though it was very congenial in nature it wasn't meant to be so I posted the abbreviated version. In short my humble opinion and I sincerely mean humble is race day is turning into a lapping day. No malice no arrogance just not interested in lapping. No hard feelings and certainly no need for heated debate.


Last edited by Brian Bent on Sat Oct 13, 2018 1:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 1:53 am 
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Oh yeah and Leigh I would and always do race every event. $430 bucks. If everyone did, that's how arms would make ends meet.. End of my thoughts and my discussion.


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